Xárene Eskander
Date: February 27, 2020
Location:The Great Hall
Reflection | Podcast | Video | Photos
Xárene Eskandar has a diverse background ranging from fashion and automotive design to architecture and live audio-visuals. She holds a Bachelor of Science in Design from the University of Cincinnati Department of Design, Architecture, Art and Planning. She went on to earn an MFA from Design Media Arts, UCLA, and she is currently working towards a PhD in Media Arts and Technology at U.C. Santa Barbara.
Drawing upon cultural anthropology, her research is focused on the evolution of the symbiotic relationship of technology and the human. Her interest lies in questions that debunk technological, architectural or social prescriptions, and instead offer neolexia for our future hybrid bodies. Her current work looks at the merger of architecture with the human body.
Reflection
In collaboration with the Southern Utah Museum of Art and the Grace A. Tanner Center for Human Values, this season’s annual Artist in Residence was Xárene Eskandar, a researcher and designer with a background ranging from yacht and automotive design to architecture and live visuals. Her research interests stem from the philosophy of technology and focus on new perceptions of the body and self through altering the perception of time and space in photography, video, and virtual and augmented reality. Her interest lies in questions that debunk technological, architectural or social prescriptions, and to instead offer neolexia for our future hybrid bodies. Her current work looks at the merger of architecture with the human body. Xárene gave her presentation, titled “Artificial Intelligence and the Arts”, on Thursday, February 27th, 2020 in the Great Hall and was introduced by the SUU Dean of the College of Visual and Performing Arts, Dr. Shauna Mendini.
Xárene began her presentation by talking about her early work as an artist, which drew inspiration from science fiction writers such as Ursula K. Le Guin and Octavia Butler, and looking at the “architecture of the [human] body,” and exploring what makes something exactly human, utilizing her own photos and other works to explore this. She also talked about deep learning, which “introduces a simulation of biological learning networks,” or in other words, the process of how the human brain learns and the retention of data that it can process, and once again asks the question of what makes humans human as well as what makes artificial intelligence different than humans? “I don’t believe in a digital existence,” she said, “I believe in an enhanced version of human capacities and forms and I believe that becoming A.I.,...not calling it artificial intelligence, but augmented intelligence...is the future,” saying that A.I. and humanity can coexist without one overpowering the other.
After her presentation, Xárene was joined onstage by Director of A.P.E.X. Events, Dr. Lynn Vartan for a brief Q&A session, asking further questions about her presentation, as well as her influences and advice for undergraduate students.
- By Emily Sexton
Encircle Podcast Transcript
[00:00:01] Hey, everyone, this is Lynn Vartan and you are listening to the A.P.E.X Hour on KSUU Thunder 91.1. In this show, you get more personal time with the guests who visit Southern Utah University from all over, learning more about their stories and opinions beyond their presentations on stage. We will also give you some new music to listen to and hope to turn you on to some new sounds and new genres. You can find us here every Thursday at 3:00 p.m. or on the web at suu.edu/apex. But for now, welcome to this week's show here on Thunder 91.1.
[00:00:46] OK, well, welcome, everybody, welcome in. It is such a pleasure to be back this week for the A.P.E.X Hour. This is Lynn Vartan. You're listening to KSUU Thunder 91.1. Today I am joined by an incredible, gosh, I mean, we were saying Renaissance woman, but I mean, the the list of things that she has done in her life and explored in her life is truly amazing and I'm really looking forward to our conversation. But I want to tell you a little bit about why she's here on campus and what this event is. This is our second annual Artist in Residence collaboration. And we're collaborating with our Southern Utah Museum of Art, A.P.E.X. Events, of course, and the Grace A. Tanner Center for Human Values. So it's been a real pleasure to have her. She's here for almost a week, meeting with students and showing her work. We're gonna be showing her film, which we'll talk about. But for the moment, I'd love to welcome to the studio, Xarene Eskandar! Welcome!
[00:01:46] Thank you for having me.
[00:01:47] Yay! Well, I feel like you're absolutely a kindred spirit, so I'm really looking forward to our conversation. But do tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. I'd love to know kind of just the thumbnail sketch of where the child artist Xarene came from to where she is now. So if you could give us a just a bit of a thumbnail sketch. I know it's like this huge wandering story that's so amazing. But just give us a few of the basics and then we'll dig in from there.
[00:02:18] Well, I think I was always, creative. My siblings as well. So that's has always been there. I think everyone has that creativity and that was just whether we choose to take it or not.
[00:02:30] So you do feel that, you feel that everyone is creative.
[00:02:34] Oh, yeah. I went to a talk by Antonio Damasio. He's a neuroscientist at USC.
[00:02:44] Oh, OK.
[00:02:45] And I don't remember the title of his book that he wrote 10, 12 years ago where he talks about how human creativity is a necessary life function of the brain.
[00:02:56] A necessary life function.
[00:02:58] It's just like we are, we are creative. I might be adding the word necessary but like it's a function of the brain. Oh, I love it. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm paraphrasing. So yeah, I think everyone's creative. I was creative. So I just chose to take that path full on. And honestly, I really wanted to be a racecar driver.
[00:03:16] No way. Really? This is why, this is why I say this. Really? Like NASCAR? Like going around the track?
[00:03:23] Oh yeah. I grew up watching NASCAR and Formula One, so I love that stuff. But then that was like just, you know, I wasn't encouraged. Surprising as all the things I was encouraged, I wasn't encouraged with that. And then I was, okay, I wanna be a pilot.
[00:03:35] You have the adrenaline gene built in, it sounds like.
[00:03:39] Not really. I'm actually really cautious. I was a really cautious kid.
[00:03:42] Really? But race cars and pilots and?
[00:03:45] Yeah, I don't know those things. Yeah. But the same time, never climbed a tree because I didn't want to fall and break something. And so then Dad was like no to that and I was like, "well then, I want to be an architect." And that seemed like, okay, that's good. You know, go with that. I went to design school though. I didn't study architecture and I studied automotive design, which was absolutely amazing. And I double majored that with interior design.
[00:04:18] Oh, wow!
[00:04:18] But I ended up working in architecture.
[00:04:22] That's so cool.
[00:04:22] Of all things.
[00:04:24] Yeah. But so cool.
[00:04:25] And then after my very first job after college, I quit my job. And I've been on an artist residency ever since.
[00:04:35] Yeah. That's what we were sort of figuring out, that you're your entire life has been an artist residency. I mean, it has. That's amazing.
[00:04:42] I also worked at, it was an internship for like six months. Yacht design.
[00:04:47] Oh, my gosh, that's so cool. And so you have lived in several places, but one of the places that you have worked, been creative and have been very connected to is Iceland. And so can you tell me a little bit about your your time in Iceland?
[00:05:07] Well, it's a desert. It's a big desert. So I went from Southern California's desert, which I absolutely love. It's my home to that, another desert. And I'm looking for a next desert, actually, to spend a few some few years or months. Iceland. I was very stuck with my work when one of my mentors told me to go to Iceland. And I did. And I was supposed to be there for a month. At the end of two weeks, I was probably in the most depressing place in all of Iceland that one could put a residency, because now that I know all of Iceland, like this is the most depressing place you could put in there.
[00:05:47] Oh, wow. Yeah.
[00:05:49] I was mismanaged. Didn't have, you know, anything. Nothing. So at the end of two weeks, I'm like, I'm out of here. But it took about like four or five days for for the shuttle to come and pick me up and, you know, like take me eight, six hours back to the city so I can catch my flight to Los Angeles, like, get me back home. But then I just I had such a great time when I got to the city over the two days I was there that I actually, in two days, I just suddenly felt like I met everyone that I should have met before. And like an amazing arts community, especially Listahaskoli where of course, Adam Taylor was. And so I decided to stay. And at the same time, what was happening was so in, I don't know what it is, at where we are here in Utah with the latitude, but it in Los Angeles, the day varies a minute or two, right? It gets shorter or longer by a minute or two. And when I arrived in Iceland, it was getting shorter, six to seven minutes every day. So the time is just going chunk, chunk, chunk. You just losing it, right? And then so there was a month of October when I was there. And September, October. And so it's like, well, you know, I just met these cool people. Just maybe stay here another month, see how the you know, the darkness is coming. And so then turned into November. And then I changed my ticket again, turned into December. And then I was like, oh, you know, my 90 day visa tourist is up. I better go home.
[00:07:20] Iceland sunk its teeth into you.
[00:07:22] Yeah. It's kind of like the same things happening to me in New Mexico right now.
[00:07:25] Which I totally want to talk about as well. But one of I want to get into your work a little bit and something that you just talked about led to a question I want to ask. But first, so that our listeners know a little bit about your work. You have a large body of work in photography. That's certainly not all of it. But can you, can you describe your body of work, which which I know is kind of hard to do because you have work in so many areas. But can you share a bit about how how you view your body of work? You have photography. You have a lot of writing online. You have your work with video games. And then we'll get into the A.I., but can you talk a little bit about the scope of your work as it exists in as tangible artwork forms?
[00:08:15] Well, there is a common thread. And as I said in my talk, it started from a social and environmental critique of architecture. So coming from an architectural background and that's kind of that division that's created by architecture, was my first critique of it. And why are we placed in these? It separates the person from the self. It separates person, you know, the family. It breaks the family apart. It breaks separate, society apart, you know. So it's that's kind of how I was looking at it. And the reason I left my job in architecture was I was in on the environmental critique of it and the lack of creativity in architecture at the time when I wanted to design a new detail to be constructed, for I believe it was like, I can't remember it anyway.
[00:09:08] Part of the building that was being built and I was told by my project manager that we've always done it this way, so just do it this way. And you know, I just came here, just copy it from when it grabbed another construction sends. I just copy it from here. I'm like, yeah, but this is not efficient. And, you know, I know you've always done it this way, but this is going to require less of this. And, you know. I just basically gave them like reason why maybe we should try this now.
[00:09:34] Right.
[00:09:35] And so I was like, I don't want to work in an environment like this where, you know, it's...and this was in the early 2000s. So it's like thinking of where at that time I could see that environmentally we need to be start thinking about how we're working in architecture differently. And so I left that and joined Dimension 7 in San Francisco, which they were, they're creating videos. They're the very first VJ's, video jockeys of the rave scene on the West Coast. And to me, looking at light as an architecture, architectural material That was my first break into this realm. I am now in materiality, which is a topic I really like. Was that. Oh, I can just use screens and projectors and create new architecture instead of using these materials.
[00:10:33] Right. Right.
[00:10:34] So that's been common in my work. And then from there, of course, it's all perception. So that's it. That's kind of what came out of that. The perception that I have of my body as an architecture or my, you know, the architectural body, right? That I talked about. So the common thread and all of these that I'm exploring is how am I shifting the boundary of my body within the different media that I'm working in video and photography being. I started with video and then got into photography.
[00:11:15] You started with video? I didn't realize that. And then you've done some music production and things like that. I saw that somewhere written. Where does that come in?
[00:11:25] Are you referring to the work, the music I make for my own work? Well, I studied with the pioneer of digital granular synthesis, Curtis Rose. So during when I was doing my PhD studies at UC Santa Barbara. And that was for the, anything that I have learned over the years has not been for commercial purposes or pursuing them just, you know, for that alone. So I studied fashion design at City College in San Francisco. Tailoring and pattern making. Just so I can use that in my own work. And so with music, I studied composition. And analog and digital synthesis.
[00:12:18] That's what I was seeing. I was noticing on your Website, talks about composition and sound design, and I was just curious.
[00:12:23] I do those for my, for my own work.
[00:12:26] OK.
[00:12:26] Yeah. I mean, it's like when I'm working with clients for marketing and branding, I do use it for them as well, of course. I do make their videos and I do design the sound for them. But, you know, yeah, it does have its commercial value. Right? Of course. But it's primarily for my own work.
[00:12:43] And there's even a clothing line in the in the works, right?
[00:12:45] Yeah. I really need to do that. That was, that's like 12 years old.
[00:12:50] What's the clothing line like? Is it a women's line? Is it a unisexual line?
[00:12:55] It doesn't have, it doesn't have a gender, actually, and now that I think about it because the body of work that it came from, I was working with, it's the body of work. The architectural organ, which looks at the post gender less post-human bodies is really like I was so heavily into Octavia Butler and Ursula K. Le Guin at the time, too. So when I first was ever read female science fiction writers, right? Now I make a deliberate effort to look for female writers, women writers in science fiction.
[00:13:36] But and in this kind of post-humans society that I had envisioned, where it is, you can be these beings that are, you know, have architectural organs, they're actually genderless. I was looking for someone whose androgynous to photograph and this before, like the whole androgynous model looking thing like long before that. And I connected with an amazing human being who's just, once I connected with her, is just like that's her preferred pronoun. It's like I can envision the work without envisioning her. Carris as her name. S o that line of clothing came out at the same time. So that's it's not it's genderless, but the whole idea because at the same time studying origami. I spent like, a good, like, year and a half just studying origami from, you know, all the masters and everything. Yeah. It's how can I take one scene and create a form with just one scene. So super minimal. And I made prototypes and like little models and drawings, I just have to make it, I just have to make it. Did I answer your original question? I literally like go on.
[00:14:58] I mean, well that's the thing. I mean, your career has been so varied and so incredible that we could just go any direction and it just leads to something cool. But I just wanted to give our listeners, you know, an opportunity to sort of get kind of get a snapshot of who you are and what you do.
[00:15:12] Definitely kept myself employed more than anyone else in the last 17 years.
[00:15:17] That's so cool. I mean, that's what it takes, you know. But when we come back, I'd love to get into some of more of the conceptual things that we've been talking about. But I have some music to play. And you might be surprised because this isn't music. This is a song that you were telling me and this is that "I Try to Talk to You" featuring John Grant.
[00:15:36] It's a great music video, isn't it?
[00:15:38] It is a great music video.
[00:15:40] The camera and the dance choreography together, the camera choreography.
[00:15:44] It is really a cool music video. But we're gonna listen to this. This is "I Try to Talk to You" featuring John Grant. You're listening to KSUU Thunder 91.1.
[00:19:51] All right. Well, that cool song was called "I Try to Talk to You" and the original artist or artist on record for the song is Hercules and Love Affair and its featuring John Grant. And we got to talking, Xarene Eskandar and I got to talking about John Grant, who's an artist that you really like isn't that right?
[00:20:10] His voice is beautiful. I know it's gorgeous.
[00:20:13] Yeah. And is he, he's an American artist living in Iceland. Is that is that right or?
[00:20:18] That's right.
[00:20:18] Yeah. Cool.
[00:20:19] I don't know much more than that.
[00:20:21] OK, well, that's enough. Well, check him out. I was new to me.
[00:20:24] Everyone within my community somehow knows him. I haven't crossed paths with. And that's what's really nice about Iceland. So there's no concept of celebrity there and you eventually meet everyone.
[00:20:34] I love that. It's like a really great fun community.
[00:20:36] I've been in communities where Bjork has just hanging out.
[00:20:39] No way!
[00:20:39] You do not go up to her and say hello.
[00:20:42] Oh, really?
[00:20:43] No, you can't that. But no one. One American girl who got really excited and went up to her and Bjork was just not having it.
[00:20:50] Wow. Well, yeah. I mean, you know, if you're at your own private party, then it's like you don't want to be bothered. I get it. So well, I have so many questions about art, but one of the things we were talking about is when you have been heavily involved in working on a video game design and that video game, how has the intent to sort of teach some things or get into some things about patterns? Can you talk about that a little bit?
[00:21:16] Yeah, well, I mean, I should say that that has been on hold because it took a hard turn into becoming my company.
[00:21:25] Right. OK.
[00:21:25] I really want to go back and develop that game. So it is meant for a younger audience, though. Anyone can really play it. But the language that we're using is really to attract a younger audience. And it's meant to help them break from a linear pattern of time. So A labyrinth that it's called The Clock Smith's Labyrinth.
[00:21:48] Oh, cool title.
[00:21:49] I thought so, too. My friend came up with it.
[00:21:56] Magnus in Iceland, but labyrinths are pretty popular and all cultures through centuries and in games.
[00:22:04] The mazes. Yeah.
[00:22:06] But they're physical things that you go through. And I wanted to create a temporal labyrinth. And for me, it was to explore visually and aesthetically, time travel beyond what we see it and generally see. But then I thought if I'm able to create successfully create this temporal labyrinth and a good narrative for it, for the player to go through, maybe, maybe it can help them start experiencing and seeing time and questioning their environment differently. I mean, when you think about how many of my generation will say what's the most influential game you had if we're architects, we'll be like Legos. You know, so the toys and the games, the video games that we've had as children later on do affect us in positive ways of the careers that we choose or interests that we have later in life or the puzzles we solve later in life.
[00:23:09] Absolutely.
[00:23:11] And so I wanted to create something else like, you know, physics as the artist photographer came and just talked to me right after. He's like times, it brings up time's a huge issue in physics. Yeah, I know. I've talked to Sean Carroll about it, you know? What if some of these topics in physics and astrophysics, these things that are or even their philosophical problems that we still have that are time related can be solved in, you know, 30, 40 years by a child that was playing this game that I've developed that's allowed them to break linear time. So that's really.
[00:23:55] That sounds amazing. I hope that project. I hope it comes back into your life, you know?
[00:24:01] I hope so, too, because what's also happened in the last four years since I put the game on hold. Unreal has come out with such much more amazing technology for environments because it was building the environments that stopped on like I don't want it to be C.G., using video is going to be just ridiculous. And you know, that generative stuff looks generous. So what do I do? And that's how I got into A.I.. But now Unreal just has absolutely amazing technology out there. They're not paying me for anything, you know? Yeah, but saying.
[00:24:39] Well, one of the things that we got to talking about when we were when we were discussing this was how how humans deal with pattern recognition. And are we good at pattern recognition? Are we bad at pattern recognition? And I wonder if you could comment on what you have found about pattern recognition in humans, because you were saying that that's something that you're particularly aware of in your own life. I was just curious about if you could comment on that first and then I have a follow up question.
[00:25:11] I am particularly good about that. And my mother is, too. I think we're particularly good at being bad about it in general, because we don't pay attention. We're not perceptive to the degree that we can be for whatever reason. And we think, "oh, I'm crazy." Maybe too much. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. Honestly, I haven't. I've never studied it or looked into it and it's into, it's wise.
[00:25:49] Well, then my question is like how do we develop, if that's something we are categorically bad at and, and-.
[00:25:55] Paying attention.
[00:25:57] So the way to develop better pattern recognition is to just pay attention.
[00:26:02] I think it's paying attention. But it's also being broad in our interests as well. Because if you know a little bit of this and a little bit of that, not like being masters and things, but if you just understand, this is how this functions. This is how that functions. Of course, human behavior always goes into that. And understanding those things, you can connect it. Can it be? That's a question; if it can even be retaught, I'm sure it can is probably what investigators would go to school for, huh?
[00:26:36] Yeah. I just wonder about that, you know, because and I wonder how people can manage that in our current you know, we're so tied to so many things that just pull attention rather than allow for awareness.
[00:26:52] And you're absolutely right.
[00:26:53] So do you have any insight on that or, you know, comments on should we all throw away our phones?
[00:27:00] I mean, no, I so am totally pro-technology, but definitely turn off the notifications. You don't need to know every little like you got on Instagram and have that exactly say, draw your attention, you know? And then that absolutely opens up your attention for other things. But I mean, I'm not one to criticize this generation. And I actually think every generation's amazing, it brings its own things. And I love the younger generations. And I'm not to say this technology does that. You know, I'm not negative towards those things in any ways. But the combination of things that are happening definitely are drawing attention away more than before. But being inquisitive, being, being slightly suspicious. Those things are good. Yeah. Paying attention to your environment, learning human behavior.
[00:28:06] Mm hmm. When you were talking about Iceland, we'd been talking quite a bit about time. And I know that and you were talking about that game. The temporal time travel in the game. And one of the things about I've been really curious about your work with time and your perception of time. And I was noticing when you were talking about Iceland that you were saying that in your time, in the time that you spent there, that that incrementally the day would get shorter and shorter and chunk and chunk and chunk and chunk. And it seemed that some of your photography work and when you when you got into the concept of real time lapse starts to do that as well. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about what is real time lapse. You know, because that's sort of a defining part of at least a certain time in your work. What is it? What does that mean?
[00:28:55] That one happened before Iceland, that was work that I started right after my MFA. And before I had gone on to my next graduate program. And so was in this space. And in between, I actually I totally forgot I did go immediately into an architect program, was invited to go in. But I was like, this is not for me. So I just kind of checked out of that and started focusing on my photography in the landscape. And I don't honestly remember the string of thought or the thought process of what led me to that kind of fateful question of what is all of time look like? It's because my whole concept. Maybe it was around still coming from me looking at the limits of the body and thinking, what kind of body would I have to be to experience all of time? I assumed that was the thought process. And it took me a year and a half of trying until I got the right image. I had tried this technique of putting all of time in one image in many different locations around the Mojave that I was hanging out and working at the time. And none of them really came in. But at each time I developed one image, I would be like, oh, OK. And I can. Critiquing your own work is really important. Like a critique, my own work and me like, OK, this is what I need to change about the next one until I hit on the right image. And it took me a long time to be able to come up with a name for it. And I don't remember how I came up with "real time lapse". Part of it is that- the time? The time? Oh, dear. Like, I didn't study my own work about this. Part of it is that time is not lapsing necessarily as a regular time lapse would. It's real time, but space within the time is lapsing even though you get the picture of the whole space in the image, but it's it's the space that's lapsing, it's not the time.
[00:31:18] OK. OK.
[00:31:19] So it's a real time, but it's a space lapse.
[00:31:23] That's cool.
[00:31:24] So some people have called it time and parallel time slices. Yeah. I mean, that method of work did not exist until I put that out. So it didn't have a name. And I'm like I have to come up with a name.
[00:31:42] Well, the results are so beautiful. I mean, those images from that period are just so striking. And they are. I can see where people say the slices because they are sort of slices of time. That brings me to another question. And that is the concept of beauty or aesthetic beauty in your work. Is that something that you think about in art, you know? Oh, this work is beautiful as I see it. Or is it more purely an expression of an idea?
[00:32:13] I don't know. I think, I do think of what the early, the early work I did, I didn't even think of the composition too much in the sense of where am I putting my horizon line? You know, I mean, I put it where I was like, okay, I'll just that that frame looks good. I'll do that. But then what the result was going to be was an absolute surprise to me. And it turned out to be, if I may say, a beautiful image. I mean. And I say that. Others say that. Yeah. People respond. So that image is done really well. It's like, like that image has funded a lot of things for me.
[00:32:50] Yeah. Well, it's very striking.
[00:32:52] Been lucky with it. But I didn't think of creating a beautiful image. I was creating an image for a concept.
[00:33:00] Right. And that's my question is that, is that a trend that continues through your work? Does creating something beautiful come into play?
[00:33:08] It's beautiful as a result of if it works for the concept and so in this sense, I've worked for the concept, but it turned out to be a beautiful image. But maybe they go hand in hand. I don't know. Maybe because it is a beautiful concept. People find it to be a beautiful image as a result. But then later on it's led into my regular landscape photography. But that was also concept driven. And if you look at the image as it is, like that horizon line is smack in the middle, like every, you know, traditional old school art teacher is going to tell you like the rule of thirds, like, you know, no putting a horizon line right in the middle. You know, and even if the landscape has a slope, I'm going to fake it and put that perfectly straight in the middle. And but that's because the concepts like if I'm standing and looking at the landscape, first of all, all my landscapes are not landscapes either. The new ones, they're all vertical because if I'm just standing there looking and maybe you see differently than me, I don't know. It's like that same question. Do we see the same green?
[00:34:13] Right. Right.
[00:34:14] So that horizon is going to be in the middle of your view. It's going to be there. If you fall it back, it's not gonna be here. So there's no rule of thirds. It's gonna be in the middle right as we see it, as we see it. And as you see it, this is in focus. And your eye is you're more inclined to go up and down when you're looking, you know. And you're gonna see even if you just look straight ahead. You're gonna be seeing this is in focus.
[00:34:41] The center.
[00:34:42] This is in focus. The sixth light. Yeah. Vertical to get the traditional landscape. You and I as the section in the essay of my books that were here to get that traditional landscapes that we all see, we'd have to turn our heads like this. I mean, why are we do that? But if I just sit, stand and stare, it's this.
[00:35:00] That's true. I never really thought about that.
[00:35:02] It turned out to be really beautiful landscapes. Everyone. People. Not everyone, that they loved them. Yeah. Thanks.
[00:35:09] Well, this leads us to a great opportunity for another song. But before we do that, I'm sure there's some people that are like, okay, I want to see this work. So if people are looking for a way into your work and art, I don't know you and don't know your work. Where should where should they go and what should they look at first or do you have a preference?
[00:35:28] You know, my Flickr, cause that just kind of, recently I started putting edited pictures on it. But there's older pictures are just not edited, but it shows kind of where I am, what I'm doing. So my landscapes are there, watermarks, some are not. You know, where I'm living is always there, my experiences, but my websites.
[00:35:48] And your website is xarene.la. Is that right?
[00:35:50] That's right. That has links to my writing and my works, and it's kind of a website I know how to navigate. It's got a bunch of icons. People just have to click on it, they'll find it.
[00:36:02] Yeah. And that's xarene.la, I think is the Web site if that's right. So check it out everyone. OK, it's time for another song. This is another one and this song is called "Think about Things" and the artist, it's an Icelandic artist and the name is the first name is D-A-O-I-
[00:36:21] D-A-O-I?
[00:36:21] Yeah, and the O has two little dots over and then F-R-E-Y-R.
[00:36:31] Isn't that Dadi Freyr?
[00:36:35] Yeah I think that's exactly what it is.
[00:36:36] Okay. It's not a O there's a D there. There should be a D. I thought Dadi is Dadi Freyr. Okay.
[00:36:42] I'm not sure I'm just looking at it on here but I know it's the one that we were talking about that you say had been. Yeah. That's it. And the song is called "Think about Things". So check it out everyone. We're listening to Icelandic music today. See what you think. You're listening to KSUU Thunder 91.1.
[00:39:41] OK. Well, that is like such a cool song, I love it. It's got such a good vibe to it and a really trippy modulation to the end. That song is called "Think About Things". And Xarene was absolutely right. I just do not know how to read the Icelandic alphabet very well. So it's...yeah, really? So it's D-A and it's a D?
[00:40:04] Yeah, it's a D with a little slash through it, "the", that's a "the" sound.
[00:40:09] Right. And then and so D-A and then that D with the I. And then the last name is F-R-E-Y-R and the song is called "Think about Things". So if you're interested check it out. This is Lynn Vartan. You're listening to the A.P.E.X Hour and I'm here back in the studio with Xarene, welcome back.
[00:40:26] Thank you.
[00:40:27] OK. So we are going to talk about some of the other cool aspects of your life. And I want to start with where you are living because I'm super jealous and I love it. But can you tell everyone a bit about. Well, where? Not that anybody could find it, right? Where do you live?
[00:40:48] In the Zuni Mountains in New Mexico.
[00:40:53] And you're completely off grid.
[00:40:54] I'm off grid. Unless I would, unless I go down to the main road where there's some accommodations there. There's an RV park that has a really cute cafe cabins. And does El Moro, New Mexico. So if I go down there, there at the ancient way RV park there, there's cute cabins. So like I was there this past week because like, I need stable Internet and power before I go to Cedar City because I need to finalize my talk here. I mean, the Zuni Mountains and my living conditions are something that I've, they've varied between things I've always wanted to try out. And I went to Arizona and New Mexico for just for two months to work with someone. And then that came to an end. And I just kind of went back to Los Angeles and then I just kind of sat there like, I think I'm going to go back to New Mexico. Because, you know, I still want to explore it. So, yeah. A month later, I flew back and I don't really, I was going to drive. You know, they called the Land of Enchantment that, you know, this land of entrapment. So the first time I left, I came back a month later. The second time I plan to leave. Like, literally. The land killed my car. Like subzero temperatures.
[00:42:21] Oh, my gosh.
[00:42:22] Subzero. Yeah. And so my car just like, it was down like, well, there goes because after I left here, I was gonna just go drive back to L.A. Killed my car like, oh no you're not going anywhere. but that's the magic of that land though. And as I'm there, my story was just echoing through other people and I'd ask them "How'd you get here?" and it's just like "I guess came here and I stayed." So the first place I stayed was in a straw bale house, sixty five acres as the person's parents who I was working with. They had the empty house and I just stayed there because there's no accommodation. There's like you can go there and rent a place.
[00:43:03] Right. Right.
[00:43:04] So you just kind of. So that's the first way the land kept me is like it's just keeps offering me these free places, awesome places to live. So I just like, oh, yeah, I've always wanted to live in like this kind of situation. And then I stayed in these gorgeous cot buildings. Mud straw. Absolutely gorgeous architecture and the Zuni Mountain Sanctuary, which is where the radical fairies are. And then and this shack, wood shack made of- super cozy inside. You know all the accommodations but made from just found wood. Wow. And repurposed RV that's not permanent on this gorgeous, you know, hand laid rock foundation by an amazing artisan there, a Navajo artisan who does amazing stonework. And then what else. Yeah. Just that kind of been rotating through these kinds of living situations. But living off grid, learning homesteading skills.
[00:44:13] Yeah. So like solar. You must be solar power. You were saying. I mean there's. Yeah. What is, what are the creature comforts? None.
[00:44:21] Well no. Everything; we have Internet and we have power and we have running water. What else do you need?
[00:44:28] Well that's true.
[00:44:29] We have outhouses. I can take a nice hot shower. Like really hot showers. But everything, everything has to be planned. So our solar panels. There's, of course, the ones that are on the roofs. You can't change those. So they're gonna get you know, depending on the battery system they have set up, you're gonna have so much battery depending what's drawing on it. So you battery can go out at eight o'clock or at eleven o'clock at night or maybe two in the morning. You don't know. It all varies. You know, these are everything. No, it's not like everyone's just done what they can through knowledge that's in the community, and which is amazing. So the solar panel that, for example, rotates like once the second day I was there, I learned if I want power to be working on my computer and have Internet late into the night, I need to get up and get out there and move that solar panel with the sun.
[00:45:21] So as soon as the sun would pop out and be freezing cold, I guess I have to struggle to push the solar panel, rotate it just because it's frozen in place. And so I check it out every day. Go check it and rotate it. And then you have to figure out, okay. How much water is in the cistern?
[00:45:36] That's awesome. Like, can I take a shower? Can I do this? How much power am I going to draw if I run the washing machine?
[00:45:43] Do you, is there a solitude aspect? I mean, do you feel lonely? I mean, how does it feel from a personal standpoint?
[00:45:53] I love solitude. When I'm in Iceland, I pack my truck, Baxter is his name, and I'll go out into the wilderness where it takes a day for anyone to come to get to me. And for anywhere from, you know, three weeks to six weeks, whatever I've stayed out there is like I'm the only person to talk to. So you have you know, it's like you have to really like yourself. Yeah. You know, be able to entertain yourself, not get bored and not get depressed. Not feel lonely and get sad about, you know. So, you know, thankfully I can manage all of that really well. I love the solitude. I mean. Yeah.
[00:46:35] It's probably very creative also.
[00:46:37] It's, you know, I can't, I don't end up wasting my time. What's lovely is like there's chores that need to be done in the morning. Cause when you're out and living on these properties, like one of my friends, bad ass 70 year old Dusty Gray, actually gets up at 4:00 in the morning. But by 9:00 in the morning, she's done everything in the rest of this, she just chills. But, you know, it's got to feed the animals. You got to, you know, just do what you need to do to make the property function, all these things that, you know, in a city, is taken care of.
[00:47:08] Right. Right.
[00:47:10] So but it's it's really lovely to have this experience to be like, okay, yeah, I gotta go, you know, make sure the chickens are taken care of and feed this. And, you know, the animals put you on a, as you know, even if in an urban environment, that your animals put you on a schedule. So now add more to that. You know, things that you have to do. And then I like saying you can go to bed at country midnight, which is 8:00 p.m. or that's when, you know, you fill your time with the other things. So that's important.
[00:47:45] Well, you have another great passion in your life that has given you so much community and excitement and adventure. And that's the rallies that you go on with the Gambler 500 groups. So I'm sure some of our audience has heard of that and understands it, but some don't. So can you tell us what is that about? What is that world?
[00:48:07] Gambler 500, of well, five hundred miles and a five hundred dollar hooptie. I mean, that's not five hundred dollars, but the cheaper your is, the more fun you have. But basically it's the largest trail cleanup in the U.S.. I don't know the numbers, but it's like massive tons of trash that we the community have picked up during our rallies from BLM land, public lands, national forests. And in some of some states, they just love us. I know. Well, for example, one of the coordinators in Washington just got a $5000 grant from Olympic National Forest to organize his events for the trail cleanups. And so it's it's common. You know.
[00:48:57] Is it just once a year or is it more often depending on-
[00:48:59] Oh, it's as often as you want. It's all over the U.S. I just start at the New Mexico chapter back and just. Well, I started it. Yeah. Our first one was December and next one's coming up. May. March 28th. And yeah, it's as I think, there's a hint as some how many states wouldn't have it still. I think in New England those states don't have Vermont. Someone organized the first one in Vermont. Well there's some states. But what's been interesting is it's shedding light on issues of access, public access to public land.
[00:49:32] Right. Right. Right.
[00:49:33] Private ownership. That's also reduced access to public lands for various reasons, like easements or just there is no public land like places like Ohio, Virginia, Pennsylvania. Well, they've all just been mining and this and that. It's like there is no public land to just go out and have fun or they're confined into like off-road parks, you know? No, it's not the same.
[00:49:56] So it sounds like it's like the best of all worlds. It's like great people, great adventure. Off-roading. There's parties. It's a great cause. It sounds like it's all these things.
[00:50:06] It is. It's brought an incredible group of people from all walks of life.
[00:50:15] I read an article that said it was like Mad Max, but with way nicer people.
[00:50:20] Yeah, it's a different class of people.
[00:50:26] So if people want to get involved in this or like, yeah, that's like because you found it by saying like all these are my people, I want to know more. If people are listening and want to find out more, where do how do they find out about Gambler 500?
[00:50:39] gambler500.com.
[00:50:40] Okay.
[00:50:40] And the Gambler 500 rally group on Facebook. And Utah has Gambler 500. If they just look up on Facebook, I believe it's Cameron Avery. If he's listening.
[00:50:55] Yeah.
[00:50:56] I think he's the coordinator, if I'm not mistaken.
[00:51:00] And most of these vehicles have names. Yours has a name.
[00:51:03] Mine has a name. Dreki Blanco.
[00:51:06] Where did that name come from?
[00:51:07] My friend's Facebook comments.
[00:51:09] Oh, my gosh!
[00:51:10] So in Iceland, these cars are called Ameriskur dreki.
[00:51:14] OK.
[00:51:15] American dragon.
[00:51:16] Oh.
[00:51:17] So one friend commented that, when I said I need to name him now. And another friend commented "caballo blanco", white horse.
[00:51:26] Right.
[00:51:26] And then I was like, oh, "Dreki Blanco". And it just fit together, so good.
[00:51:33] I love it. Oh, my gosh. OK. So I have my last song to play and it is called "Chevy Impala.".
[00:51:38] Yeah!
[00:51:40] So that's the link. And it's a really interesting artist that I found recently. Her name is Lo Lo and then Zouai, Z-O-U-A-I. So, yeah. Check her out. See what you think. KSUU Thunder 91.1.
[00:55:08] All right. Well, that was "Chevy Impala." I really like that song and that artist is Lo Lo, Lo Lo, L-O-L-O, Z-O-U-A-I is her name. And the song is called "Chevy Impala." So we are almost out of time here, which is just always blows my mind how quickly the time goes. And I have so enjoyed talking to Xarene. Thank you so much. We want to make sure to plug your website again, which is Xarene, X-A-R-E-N-E, dot L-A. So be sure to check it out. But I have my final question for you. Are you ready? It's a very serious question. And it's not, it's just a very playful question. It's an opportunity for our our audience to get to know you a little bit more. And it's the question is like, what's turning you on this week? And it can be anything. It can be a movie or TV show or a book or whatever. It could be your favorite brand of lipstick. It could be anything you want. So, Xarene Eskandar, what is turning you on this week?
[00:56:10] Well, you know the bad-ass 70 year old I told you about, Dusty Grae? She brews beer with herbs.
[00:56:18] Oh, how cool!
[00:56:19] I am looking forward to her beer with mugwort.
[00:56:22] Oh, my gosh.
[00:56:23] Yes.
[00:56:24] And can you really taste that? Because I've had beer with jasmine in it, and I, and you can?
[00:56:28] Oh, you can taste it. Yeah. She has beer with oregano. You can taste it. Yeah. She's. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to that because she's also going to teach me her brews because she loves off-grid. And you know, she has this little Airstream setup where she's brewing in and making her chocolate and whatnot.
[00:56:44] Oh my gosh.
[00:56:45] So it's like, she's, she's streamlined it. Yes. It's minimal. So I'm looking forward to that.
[00:56:51] Oh, my gosh, that's so cool. Thank you for sharing that. It's been such a blast to have you. And thank you so much for your time and for being on the show.
[00:56:59] It was my pleasure.
[00:57:00] I love your work. I love, I can't wait to see what you do next. I mean, it's like I'm going to be a long term fan following you all throughout your career. So thank you so much. All right. We'll see you all next week.
[00:57:13] Thanks so much for listening to the A.P.E.X Hour here on KSUU Thunder 91.1. Come find us again next Thursday at 3:00 p.m. for more conversations with the visiting guests at Southern Utah University and new music to discover for your next playlist. And in the meantime, we would love to see you at our events on campus to find out more. Check out suu.edu/apex. Until next week, this is Lynn Vartan saying goodbye from the A.P.E.X Hour, here on Thunder 91.1.